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John Kerry; Swift Vet Victim
Sen. John Kerry was in Lansdowne stumping for Barack Obama the other night.
According to our Amy Brisson's excellent report...
"Kerry spent much of the event responding generally to the audience’s questions on Obama’s electability, how to defend him from the kind of “Swift Boat” attacks that damaged Kerry’s 2004 campaign... "
The assumption here seems to be that the Swift Vets and POWs for Truth, the group that criticized Kerry for attempting to use his Vietnam-era military service to get elected president, unfairly misrepresented his service.
The problem with such an assertion is that the none of the accusations against Kerry by his fellow servicemen were ever proven to be false.
As they pointed out at the time:
"John Kerry's service in Vietnam lasted 4 months and 12 days, beginning in November 1968 when he reported to Cam Ranh Bay for a month of training. His abbreviated combat tour ended shortly after he requested a transfer out of Vietnam on March 17, 1969, citing Navy instruction 1300.39 permitting personnel with three Purple Hearts to request reassignment. So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty, other than those who were seriously wounded or killed.
"It is clear that at least one of Kerry's Purple Heart awards was the result of his own negligence, not enemy fire, and that Kerry went to unusual lengths to obtain the award after being turned down by his own commanding officer.
"John Kerry has long insisted that using the three-injury loophole to leave combat early was his own idea, but Kerry's fellow Swift officer Thomas Wright, who served on occasion as the OIC (Officer in Charge) of Kerry's boat group, contradicts that claim. Wright reports that he "had a lot of trouble getting Kerry to follow orders," and that those who worked with Kerry found him "oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives." He therefore requested that Kerry be removed from his boat group. After John Kerry qualified for his third Purple Heart, Thomas Wright and two fellow officers informed him of the obscure regulation, and told him to go home. Wright concluded, "We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11."
"Constructing a complete picture of Kerry's service is difficult due to gaps in the Naval records provided by the Kerry campaign. These gaps include missing and incomplete fitness reports, missing medical records and missing records related to his medal awards.
"For this reason we call upon Senator Kerry to authorize complete access to all his military records by filing a standard Form 180, a simple two-page release form.
He never did.
Only 3 of the 19 men he served with supported his candidacy. A dozen said he was "unfit to be commander-in-chief."
And only 3 of 23 of his fellow Swift Boat commanders supported his bid for the presidency.
If the people who worked with Obama when he was a young man had similar problems with his candidacy, it would be good to know why.
The lesson of the Kerry campaign is don't run as something you're not. And don't have the arrogance to think you can get away with it.
UPDATE: I don't think anyone has written about Kerry and the Swift Vets better than Mac Owens. Here's one of his old pieces. that sums things up pretty well.
According to our Amy Brisson's excellent report...
"Kerry spent much of the event responding generally to the audience’s questions on Obama’s electability, how to defend him from the kind of “Swift Boat” attacks that damaged Kerry’s 2004 campaign... "
The assumption here seems to be that the Swift Vets and POWs for Truth, the group that criticized Kerry for attempting to use his Vietnam-era military service to get elected president, unfairly misrepresented his service.
The problem with such an assertion is that the none of the accusations against Kerry by his fellow servicemen were ever proven to be false.
As they pointed out at the time:
"John Kerry's service in Vietnam lasted 4 months and 12 days, beginning in November 1968 when he reported to Cam Ranh Bay for a month of training. His abbreviated combat tour ended shortly after he requested a transfer out of Vietnam on March 17, 1969, citing Navy instruction 1300.39 permitting personnel with three Purple Hearts to request reassignment. So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty, other than those who were seriously wounded or killed.
"It is clear that at least one of Kerry's Purple Heart awards was the result of his own negligence, not enemy fire, and that Kerry went to unusual lengths to obtain the award after being turned down by his own commanding officer.
"John Kerry has long insisted that using the three-injury loophole to leave combat early was his own idea, but Kerry's fellow Swift officer Thomas Wright, who served on occasion as the OIC (Officer in Charge) of Kerry's boat group, contradicts that claim. Wright reports that he "had a lot of trouble getting Kerry to follow orders," and that those who worked with Kerry found him "oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives." He therefore requested that Kerry be removed from his boat group. After John Kerry qualified for his third Purple Heart, Thomas Wright and two fellow officers informed him of the obscure regulation, and told him to go home. Wright concluded, "We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11."
"Constructing a complete picture of Kerry's service is difficult due to gaps in the Naval records provided by the Kerry campaign. These gaps include missing and incomplete fitness reports, missing medical records and missing records related to his medal awards.
"For this reason we call upon Senator Kerry to authorize complete access to all his military records by filing a standard Form 180, a simple two-page release form.
He never did.
Only 3 of the 19 men he served with supported his candidacy. A dozen said he was "unfit to be commander-in-chief."
And only 3 of 23 of his fellow Swift Boat commanders supported his bid for the presidency.
If the people who worked with Obama when he was a young man had similar problems with his candidacy, it would be good to know why.
The lesson of the Kerry campaign is don't run as something you're not. And don't have the arrogance to think you can get away with it.
UPDATE: I don't think anyone has written about Kerry and the Swift Vets better than Mac Owens. Here's one of his old pieces. that sums things up pretty well.
posted by Spencerblog at
11:03 AM
58 Comments:
It shows a clear bias that the Lib Press always mentions his "swift boating" in passing, as if it has been generally accepted to have been a somehow unfair or dishonest attack on him. It wasn't. The Lib Press is lying to you.
And it was funny how Hanoi John could base his entire presidential campaign on his military service record while refusing to release that record.
Turns out that "dumb" old George W. scored higher than Hanoi John both in intelegence and grades.
And his proposed "kinder and gentler aproach to the war on terror was French in its cowardice.
"Saddam Hussein was 587 Florida votes from remaining in power."
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Diano is wrong again. The Swifties were not debunked. Though there were plenty of Kerry campaign attempts to silence them.
As I said Kerry did have his Swift Vet supporters but many more of his fellow veterans who served with him didn't think highly of him during his service or what he did after, slandering his fellow servicemen as war criminals and psychopaths.
As for Kerry's recollections of events, recall his famous story and on being illegally sent do Cambodia during Christmas. It was an event "seared, seared" into his memory.
Kerry's story has been DEBUNKED. Not only by the Swifties but by Kerry himself.
More later.
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in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan
Lol! Who can forget this?! This one line cost that scumbag those 587 votes.
That this traitor is a U.S. senator and has gotten so far in American politics to run for president is a disgrace. He should have been shot.
But instead he's one of the heros of the Left. Figures.
If some of you had ever come to terms with being lied into Vietnam, being turned loose to commit acts that were against the Geneva Convention, and that millions of tons of bombs did not stop the Vietnamese from fighting for freedom - we wouldn't be in Iraq today. The government lied about Vietnam. They lied about Iraq WMD. There is nothing heroic about fighting in an illegal war. The heroes are the ones who stop them. Get on the right side of history this time and stop lying about John Kerry.
Dave, talk about being debunked, the "Winter Soldiers" were shown to be a pretty rag tag group, many of whom lied about their own service and actions.
The name Al Hubbard ring any bells? He was a Winter Soldier and co-founder of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He lied about what he did, who he was and where he was during the Vietnam War. Jane Fonda, Mark Lane and Tom Hayden were all promoters of the Winter Soldiers Investigation fraud.
You're not helping Kerry's case by repeating the lies he told about his fellow soldiers.
Sandy, if what you say is true guys like David are heroes and guys like John McCain are war criminals. That's a pretty tough sell.
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Did he just compare patriotism (all of which is 'blind and misguided' to Libs) to Anti-Semitism?
Lol...
I find it remarkable the rate at which Libs turn against their own country when a Repub is in the Oval Office. They’re down right gleeful about it.
“Dissent is only patriotic when…” oops, Lib dissenters are never patriotic, are they? Why, it is patriotism that they're dissenting about! How the heck can that be patriotic??
Libs are so confusing …and confused.
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Nice try, Dave.
Of course, there are documented cases of atrocities in Vietnam as in every war.
Kerry, however, seemed to buy every crackpot story told to him. In protest of the war, he pretended to throw his own medals away in a very public ceremony, but it turned out he kept his own and threw away somebody's else's.
Nice.
During the 2004 campaign he tried to back off some of the statements he made during the war.
That so many of the men who knew Kerry during his service -- in fact, essentially the entire chain fo command - came out against his bid to be Commander in Chief, says more than a little something about his fitness for the office.
Again, no substantive fact or question raised by the Swift Vets and POWs was ever definitively debunked.
And you can bet if Kerry full military record would have done so, he would have released it. He didn't. Still hasn't.
LibDems like you who are so quick to turn against their own country –particularly during wartime, thereby giving aid to our enemies- are the real ones who weaken our country, Dave. You Libs weep endlessly about our diminished standing in the world, when it has been you filthy Libs who have done all you can to soil our standing. Talk about atrocities…
Motive matters. It is not patriotic to attack a sitting president during wartime just because he has hurt your feelings. Dissent is only patriotic when not based on ideology. And with you Libs it always is. Always.
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Diano Edwards:
I represent a guy who was tortured in a Canadian prison from 2000 through 2004. The Canadians denied my client was ever in the country, until several months ago. Canada has confirmed my client was incarcerated, and that he was not given any access to consular services. My client was incarcerated on bogus charges relating to his attempt to tell his wife he loved her through a third person. The Canadian government tortured my client, gave him no access to the Consulate (in violation of the Vienna Convention), and then denied that he was ever in a Canada.
Canada has identified the US as a sponsor of torture, yet they do it themselves to our citizens and lie about it. Do you think that I should go out on the talk show circuit and blame this on President George Bush?
Also, tomorrow I have a meeting with Congressman Steny Hoyer, D-Md, about this situation, and I am wondering if you can share with me some anti Bush talking points. You are better at that than I! I just can't figure out a way to blame this atrocity on Bush, and I am thinking that maybe he doesn't have any culpability.
Lastly, Diano Edwards, you can read about this on Worldnet Daily as it was their top story yesterday. I will report back to you after I get done in the office of the majority leader in the House, and I will do my best to act like a liberal while there.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
Lol! Mr. S!
Maybe you Hate America First LibDems should work on treating your own countrymen with a little respect before you worry about how foreigners feel, Dave.
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Diano Edwards:
So I guess tht if my client was a Muslim, who was waterboarded and who also had his Koran flushed down the toilet, that would be a credible story for you?
The problem with your theory is that my client's story has been checked out already.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
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Diano Edwards:
You seem to know alot about my client, however, this all started when the Canadian government denied he was ever in Canada, and then admitted recently that he was in Canada. Also, there is now no record of his "trial", the transcripts, or any other evidence.
Lastly, one of the intelligence agencies here in the states has confirmed what Mr. Loper has stated.
Pay attention.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
Diano Edwards:
So I guess tht if my client was a Muslim, who was waterboarded and who also had his Koran flushed down the toilet, that would be a credible story for you?
LMAO! Score one for Mr. S! :D
Maybe if they guy were a black gay Muslim that hated Bush/America Dave would be more sympathetic? He sure seems to be selective with his sympathy like that. Lol...
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Diano Edwards:
How about that the Canadian government scrubbed his name from any records, including his driving record - he had a Canadian Drivers License.
Funny also that his story has been vetted by one of our most secretive intelligence agencies.
I find it very understandable that you will find fault in the story because anything related to me, Randall, Spencer, or anyone/anything you don't like is not worthy of any credence.
Oh well, you may get your wish about Hussein Obama too!
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
I stand corrected:
According to the Globe:
On May 20 (2005), Kerry signed a document called Standard Form 180, authorizing the Navy to send an ''undeleted" copy of his ''complete military service record and medical record" to the Globe. Asked why he delayed signing the form for so long, Kerry said in a written response: ''The call for me to sign a 180 form came from the same partisan operatives who were lying about my record on a daily basis on the Web and in the right-wing media. Even though the media was discrediting them, they continued to lie. I felt strongly that we shouldn't kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out."
But this makes Kerry's 3-year refusal to sign the Navy Standard Form 180 even more bizarre. His explanation doesn't make sense. , By refusing to sign the release form it was Kerry who dragged out the suspicions concerning what might be in his record.
Given that he personally wrote many of the after action reports concerning the missions he went on, given that many of his military peers recall events very differently that Kerry does, given that dozens of these men refused to support him in his bid to become commander-in-chief because of his actions during his time in Vietnam and after -- questions about his conduct still persist.
When he came home and became a leader of the anti-war movement he publicly slandered his fellow soldiers as a bunch of Gengis Khans. This while guys like John McCain were still being held in Vietcong prison camps. Kerry's very words calling American soldiers war criminals were used to torture false confessions from American POWs.
As Mac Owen points out (hit the link in the UPDATE above) the real trouble with the young John Kerry is that he bought into the idea that the typical American serviceman in Vietnam was a war criminal, when the vast, vast majority were anything but.
The Swift Vets believed strongly that John Kerry lied - and repeated lies - about their service and his own. (Kerry, himself, admitted that an event that was "seared, seared" in his memory didn't happen as he said it did.)
If Kerry had apologized for his youthful, intemperate remarks about his fellow soldiers, if he hadn't tried to run for president as a "war hero" and instead as someone who had served honorably but wanted to get the hell out of dodge, he might be president today.
What did him in was his own arrogance and inflated sense of himself. And it was the Swift Vets who helped reveal it.
Yeah. Hanoi John doesn’t possess much more character than Dave does.
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Diano Edwards:
You are a silly man. First of all, I am unable to reveal the name of the intelligence agency.
As for the rest of your hate filled attack on me, I could care less what some people think of me. In fact, everyone has an opinion, but too few people are willing to share them publicly. Many people believe exactly what I believe in and the ones that think I am a nut job think so for the following reasons (in no particular order):
1 - I believe that homosexuality is a sin and is unnatural;
2 - that you have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms;
3 - Abortion is murder;
4 - political correctness has ruined this country.
Wow, Diano Edwards, I am so sorry that I offended those in your circle with these radical concepts.
I just recived a voice mail from a very angry black woman about my column. If you want to hear it I can email it to you - good for a laugh! It gives me goosebumps.
Lastly, if I allowed my daughter to date a black boy, would you stop calling me a bigot?
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
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David,
I didn't INSIST Kerry didn't release his records, I simply said he hadn't, believing it still to be true.
But, it's silly to suggest that was my "whole premise" in believing the Swift Vets raised serious questions about Kerry's service and conduct during the Vietnam era.
It wasn't what the unreleased records said, it was was Kerry's fellow Swift Vets actually said and recalled about him.
Vets like Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired), who said:
"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lies in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.
"Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"
And Swift boater Steve Gardner...
"I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"
And Commander Grant Hibberd:
"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom."
There were many many other vets who recalled none too flattering things about him.
Kerry may be a hero to you, David. But he is no hero to many of the men with whom he served. To them, he is something much much less and as John O'Neill said, "unfit to command."
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Kerry removed himself from duty after 4 months so there was no need.
And Media Matters, is a left-wing, partisan group, hardly a reliable or objective referee of the debate.
Read Mac Owens if you want to understand how vets felt about Kerry and why.
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I'll say for the record that I was never one for the Swift Boat Controversey. Itg didn't affect my decision in the 2004 election and it doesn't affect me now. I thought Cheney said it best at the 2004 convention, when speaking on Kerry's military time, said "We honor and respect his military service to our country." End of story.
Only Dave would still be desperately grasping to defend Hanoi John. Lol…
And I can’t believe he actually cited Media Matters as a reliable source …for anything! Hahahaha….
You’re a funny guy, Dave.
Dave,
It's "accept," not except. Too much posting in the wee
hours will do that. You MUST chill!
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I missed Mayor C. Scott's lines in this discussion. Man he's on fire! Best of luck on that case!
Why is it in this PC world that we have to overly respect and fear Muslims yet we;re critical of things guys like C. Scott state? Are we not entitled to our beliefs and opinions? Was this nation not founded upon religious freedom?
I don't always agree with His Honor, but I have to respect C. Scott for his beliefs and refusing to buckle under them.
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I don't know if I should waste my time replying to the s&%& you're shoveling...
Dave seems to believe that the more words he types the more true his warped views become. Libs is funny like that.
I liked this part:
attempt to spread his ignorance about homosexuality against the progress and knowledge of the last few decades.
Lol…
And did he just compare the moon landings to homoism? Lol...
Steve:
Diano Edwards is a dope. It is people like him who advocate the suppression of speech that they don't like. Diano Edwards cares nothing about and knows nothing about what it means to have the freedom of conscience. Every one of his posts is laced with invectives designed to make people keep their thoughts to themselves.
To Diano Edwards:
Last May I did the Lynn Doyle show (she is a babe) about Don Imus. I called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson race hustlers, and I also said that political correctness is seeking a standardization of ideas, especially with hate crimes laws that are debated in this Country. Lynn did a people on the street poll and 85% agreed with what I was saying.
Take that!
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
Every one of his posts is laced with invectives designed to make people keep their thoughts to themselves.
Lol... Libs hate being exposed.
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Diano Edwards:
Again, give us your best knowledge based argument that God (or your God or Muhammed) intended for 2 men to sodomize each other.
Also, about the polling, there was nothing loaded about that poll. Lynn Doyle is a far left loon like you (and she is a babe).
I bet that if the poll asked if you are queer the results would be higher than 85% yes.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
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Why do the Daves always try to equate gays to the historic black experience? It’s not the same thing.
No it’s not.
No, it’s not.
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Powerless?
It was a sad time in our nation's history back when gays were slaves and they couldn't vote and they had to ride in the back of busses and had to drink from separate water fountains and... Oh, wait a minute...
Diano Edwards:
Since you think knowledge gained over the last 30-40 years has enlightened us to finally know that homosexuality is as normal as heterosexuality, how much longer before there is or should be no gender difference? How much longer before your ilk gain enough knowledge to promote sex with dogs because dogs need love too?
Under you world view, everything is ok.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
And so we finally see that Diano's background is in Atheism, which backs up his stances on morality issues (e.g. Why abortion is not an issue to him).
Diano and Shields couldn't be any different.
Steve:
Diano Edwards and his ilk are atheists and they want a purely secular world. They will achieve it through regulating opposing viewpoints (Christianity) out of existence. Canada and most of Europe don't allow any criticism of homosexuals or muslims, or even the denial of the holocaust (I know that the Holocaust happened). The target is almost always Christian speech.
People like Diano want tolerance yet the way they act is very intolerant. As you can see from many of these posts, I have never tried to shout him back into the closet, as I would never want to push my views on him. That is the nice thing about being Christian, you deliver the message without resorting to force or coersion. The Muslims do it through force, Christians don't. The other religions, to name a few, that promote their viewpoint through force are:
Atheists;
The Church of Political Correctness;
The Church of Global Warming
I pity the atheists as it must be an empty feeling to have no hope through any type of salvation. I wonder where he thinks he goes when he dies. Also, what Diano will also deny is that Christianity is the one religion that does more for the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, the oppressed, etc... than any other religion on this earth.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
Lol… You guys sure can see through the Lib scheme. Why do so many others fail to see Lying Libism for what it really is when the proof is everywhere?
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Diano Edwards:
You keep saying the same thing, yet your arguments make no sense, except if you use the secular/atheist rule book which is nothing more that a compilation of blank pages.
As for the dog issue, if society sanctifies sex between two same sex "partners", how long will it be before it is ok to have sex with your dog?
Lastly, before I forget, I know people that are homosexual and I enjoy their company and I enjoy their business. I don't want anything bad to happen to a homosexual. That is what you fail to see. The fact that I believe the homosexuality is a sin and unnatural does not mean that I hate these people. I pray everyday that people that live that lifestyle will come around and leave that lifestyle for something that is natural and in accordance with God's law. That is it. If they choose to stay in that lifestyle, so be it, they will eventually answer to God on judgment day. The same argument applies to people who abort their babies.
Diano Edwards, my statements are neither bigoted, hateful, or intolerant.
Leave that lifetyle now before it is too late.
C. Scott Shields, Esquire
www.shieldsandhoppe.com
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You gonna let this guy keep spouting his hate filled religion bashing, Gil?
Gay apologists invented the whole “consent” litmus charade. They think it somehow clinches their defense of gayness, separating it from other perversions. It doesn’t.
It's none of your business what two consenting adults do.
This is another false idiom.
Dave seems to be the only one that doesn't know he's gay. I'll bet his wife knows.
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So anyway…
Ok, then it is agreed that sniveling coward Hanoi John is a traitor of the Hate America First stripe and should have been hanged for his treason. And he was directly responsible for the spitting treatment our brave soldiers received upon their return from that misguided Democrat war. And it is a shame he wasn’t just fragged over in Vietnam before he had the chance to cause so much harm for both America and our captive soldiers.
And yet the American Left still voted for him for president.
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